Houston Astros Regular Season Thread

[Guest eagle eye]

I agree with KABrother88 about Folty and Lincecum too. Lincecum is still a good pitcher. He slumped last year but didn't he just toss a no-no recently? You never know why a pitcher's effectiveness trails off. Roy Oswalt was like Lincecum, a smallish guy who was effective and at times could overpower hitters. Lincecum will be okay but maybe never as dominant as before.

As for Folty if he can't develop his curve he may be better served learning a cut fastball or a splitter. If he ends up a closer or setup man he can live with 2 quality pitches. Remember Doug Jones? He closed for Houston in the 90's and he threw a change up about 80% of the time. Either way starter or closer you throw fastballs in 100 mph range with good location and have a good change up that's all you need. Didn't Nolan Ryan just have his fast ball and curve? Maybe a change up? That worked out okay if I remember right.

[Guest eagle eye]

So, I was just looking at the MLB standings and there was one number that jumped out and just smacked me in the eye. Knowing that Houston's offense is bad is one thing but seeing evidence of it in black and white is another. The thing that caught my eye was the runs scored for/against differencial for Houston is -160. That's minus 160! No other MLB team is even in triple digits! The second worst differencial in all of ML baseball is the -93 of the Miami Marlins and the next one after that is the Chicago White Sox is -65. The utter futility of Houston's offense shows right there. I got to looking at team hitting stats and it turns out these three teams are neck and neck in team runs scored. HA and CWS have scored 376 runs and MM have scored 319 and these are the bottom three in MLB. Miami's total team hits sits as the league worst 785 and Houston is second with 786. In team batting ave Miami is rock bottom with a .232 ave but Houston is 2nd with a .234 team BA. As a team Miami is the worst without question so how in the world have they won 4 more games? Another shutout yesterday suffered against Toronto and futility continues.

[Big T]

Hey EE, the horse is already dead. We all know how bad this team is and how futile the offense is. But the good news is that Springleton are getting ready to make their move up in the next couple of months and Jon Villar is already here. Preston Tucker is in AA and tearing it up and Carlos Correa is getting ready to make the move to high A ball. And if you really want to be optimistic, thank this horrible offense for potentially getting to draft Rodon and the Astros potentially having a rotation with both Rodon and Appel. Sorry, but I'm in a really good mood today and your negative remark almost ruined it. ;)

[KABrother88]

In case you guys looked at this Jonathan Mayo has re-ranked his top 100 prospects and his top 20 per team with 2013 draft picks included

 

Astros land 8 in the top 100 with 4 of those in the top 30...Correa (9 overall) is our new number one followed by Singleton (22 overall), Springer (27 overall), and Appel (29 overall)

 

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2013/index.jsp?c_id=hou

[Guest eagle eye]

Hey EE, the horse is already dead. We all know how bad this team is and how futile the offense is. But the good news is that Springleton are getting ready to make their move up in the next couple of months and Jon Villar is already here. Preston Tucker is in AA and tearing it up and Carlos Correa is getting ready to make the move to high A ball. And if you really want to be optimistic, thank this horrible offense for potentially getting to draft Rodon and the Astros potentially having a rotation with both Rodon and Appel. Sorry, but I'm in a really good mood today and your negative remark almost ruined it. ;)

 

I guess you're right BT but not only did I sort of beat that dead horse a little bit but way in the back of my mind I thought maybe I can help Houston alter their fortunes a little. If you go back through this thread I have praised some players who then went completely into the tank. The latest being Lucas Harrell. I liked him from last year and saw him as a guy who could be part of the Astros future. AAAAAAAA! The buzzer goes off and Harrell may not even be in the Astros future now. On the other side of the coin I have criticized the heck out players or the team as a whole and then they started playing better. In 2013 it's uncanny how many times this has happened. I realize it's all coincidence but look what happened today. The Astros scored 8 runs, 4 in the first inning and Dallas Kuechel battled his ass off for 7-1/3 innings! Even Jose Veras couldn't blow this save going 1-2/3. Houston ended up scoring 8 runs and actually winning the game! Maybe there's a little life in that horse yet. Austin Powers ain't got nuthin on my mojo! LOL!

[KABrother88]

Astros have traded Jose Veras to Detroit for 19 year old OF Danry Vasquez and a PTNL.

 

Vasquez is Detroit's #4 prospect according to MLB.com and #6 according to Baseball America. Was hitting .281 in A ball this year. Still very young and raw but some scouts think he has .280 to .300 with 15 HR potential.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130729&content_id=55148144&vkey=news_hou&c_id=hou

[Big T]

I think that Veras for Vasquez straight up would have been a very fair trade but to also get a PTBNL as well is great. Now it may turn out to be nothing but any addition to this trade makes this a huge win for the Stros. Looking forward to seeing who the PTBNL is. Luhnow strikes again!

[Guest eagle eye]

I think that Veras for Vasquez straight up would have been a very fair trade but to also get a PTBNL as well is great. Now it may turn out to be nothing but any addition to this trade makes this a huge win for the Stros. Looking forward to seeing who the PTBNL is. Luhnow strikes again!

 

I think to say an established reliever for an A-ball prospect is a fair deal is crazy. The numbers being projected for Vasquez aren't all-star numbers unless he has base stealing ability that translates into great field coverage in center field and 30+ stolen bases. The numbers don't suggest a corner outfielder so I would be suprised if he is anything but a center fielder. I would have hoped Houston got more young pitching from this deal. Detroit needed Veras so Houston was in a position of power in that deal. Now, if Vasquez blossoms into an Andruw Jones in his Braves years then we may have something. As it is IMO the Veras deal wouldn't work at all without the PTBNL. As it is the Astros don't have a real closer type on the squad so I guess it will be closer-by-committee. Some might suggest bringing Folty up but I think this does him a disservice and could do more harm than good.

[KABrother88]

MLB.com placed Vasquez at 16 on our top 20 prospects...interestingly they dropped AAA C Carlos Perez from the top 20 to add Vasquez...Perez was a spot or 2 ahead of Stassi who was #20 when they updated the other day but now they took Perez out and left Stassi.

 

Not sure if it is a sign of just how deep our minor leagues are getting or a sign of the Tigers having a poor farm system or maybe a combination of both but going from 4 to 16 is a big difference

[Big T]

EE, you have constantly bashed Veras on this thread week after week yet you complain that we didn't get enough for him. Lets remind you of a few things about Veras.

 

32 years old

Up until this year had three times more blown saves than saves

Career 2/1 K/BB ratio

Whip 1.315

3.88 Career ERA which was above 4 before this season started.

 

So in other words you have an over the hill middle reliever who was forced into a closers roll this season because he was the best out of one of the worst bullpens in the history of MLB. And granted he did a very good job in that roll despite your bitching and complaining about him. This is a guy that in any other year of his existence in MLB wouldn't even get a top thirty prospect in return.

 

Now what was Luhnow able to get for the over the hill reliever? A 19 YO outfielder with the potential to be a middle of the order kind of bat. .300 15 HR 30 2B 80 RBI kind of bat. That is the perfect number five or six hole hitter. But that is not all, the guy is 19YO and still developing and growing into his body 6'3 177 with a chance to reach a power potential of 5 out of 7. That comes out to be a 15-20 HR guy if he develops like the scouts think he will.

 

The issues with him are his arm, range and speed. He is below average in all of these catagories so he is destined for left field. He also needs to work on plate discipline, once again he is only 19, but his .333 OBP and his 56/31 K/BB ratio will not cut it.

 

This is a very fair deal. By fair I mean mutually beneficial to both sides. Other than Domingo Santana, who it looks like is going to have to repeat AA, and 23 YO Preston Tucker, there really isn't another LF prospect worth talking about in the Astros system. This was a very good trade EE.

 

KA, It is a bit of both. Danry is considered to be a B- type of prospect but we need to remember that is after the Tigers demoted him last year after tanking he lost quite a bit in the scouts eyes. He then bounced back in the same league he tanked in the previous year and is now more than holding his own. I think he will continue to move up in the rankings of the system as he proves he can hold his own at each level. If he continues his current line I could see him moving up a spot or two.

 

In other news, the Astros have recalled Chia Jen-Lo from AA Corpus. I'm guessing he is taking Veras's place in the pen.

[Big T]

Here is what the experts have to say.

 

Baseball Prospectus: Detroit's #4 prospect pre-season

 

The Tools: 6 potential hit; 6 raw; 5 arm

 

What Happened in 2012: A false start in full-season ball was merely a minor roadblock, as the young Venezuelan showed off his offensive chops in the New York-Penn League, hitting over .300 in a solid 72-game sample.

 

Strengths: Highly projectable frame; could add weight/strength; whippy swing that shows impressive bat speed; natural hitting ability; it’s very easy; good present pop; good power projection; bat has the potential to play in corner.

 

Weaknesses: Overall profile dependent on offensive utility; arm is only average and better suited for left field; below-average run; lacks up the middle skill-set; doesn’t yet have a good plan at the plate; can chew fastballs, but struggled with secondary stuff and would chase.

 

Overall Future Potential: 5; solid-average major-league regular

 

Explanation of Risk: High risk; has yet to find stride at full-season level; huge pressure on bat; questions about approach.

 

The Year Ahead: Vasquez just turned 19, and will take another swing at the full-season level. The ability to fail and respond to failure is paramount to future success, and the adjustments made after his initial failure in Low-A speak volumes about the makeup of the player. He’s a natural hitter with a projectable body, so if he grows into his frame and adds strength, the juice in the bat could make him a very good prospect. The defensive profile will play in left field, but the path to success is in the promise of the bat, and that could develop in a number of different ways.

 

-------------------

 

Keith Law

 

"He’s a lottery ticket for Houston, a guy with everyday upside if the strength ever comes, but a low-probability prospect until then. They’re also getting a second player as a PTBNL, reportedly another good flier for the Astros, which will make this a very good return for two months of Veras plus an option year, especially since a closer is a needless luxury for a team en route to 100 losses.”

 

 

[Guest eagle eye]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Big T. I don't think much of this trade because of the reason I posted yesterday---Houston was dealing from a position of advantage with Detroit. Vasquez is young and raw, I don't have a problem with that but I do have a problem with a kid who is slow, average arm (at best) and is undisciplined at the plate. Anyone can hit fastballs but if he struggles with off speed stuff can he really learn to hit junk pitches? To me, there are way too many "ifs" in regard to Vasquez. The other side of the coin is Veras. Yes I bitched about him and he deserved it but he was 19 of 22 in save opportunities. My gripe was, he flirted with too many blown saves. I like my closers to be more automatic than Veras was for us. Sort of like Billy Wagner in his prime. The fact is Detroit absolutely needed a closer and of the ones available Veras was the best on the market. Houston had to know this and could have gotten a better prospect than an iffy 19 year old left fielder with questionable skills. Houston didn't have to deal Veras. He would have been a stop gap player until someone, like Folty, came up to settle in as Houston's closer for years to come. Veras' salary wasn't prohibitive to just dump him so, for all these reasons I don't feel it was a good deal much less a great deal. For all his home runs, to me, this is a swinging K by Jeff Luhnow.

[KABrother88]

Alright tomorrow is the non-waiver wire trade deadline as we all know...tonight Bud Norris takes the hill in Baltimore in what could be his last outing as a Houston Astro...reports are out there that Pittsburg will be the other party...what I'm seeing is that Pittsburg will not part with AA OF Gregory Planco but Houston is intrigued by A ball pitcher Tyler Galsow who has been very good minus his walk rate...but he's another 19 year old and 6'-7" and scouts slobber all over that...FB and CB have potential to both be plus...that being said I would think Luhnow would still ask for more...would love for them to land another arm in this deal. The Orioles have shown alot of interest in Norris so maybe if a deal is not on the table tonight he can go out and have a good showing against them to help drive up his stock...if anything is close to happening look for Norris to be scratched

[KABrother88]

Alright tomorrow is the non-waiver wire trade deadline as we all know...tonight Bud Norris takes the hill in Baltimore in what could be his last outing as a Houston Astro...reports are out there that Pittsburg will be the other party...what I'm seeing is that Pittsburg will not part with AA OF Gregory Planco but Houston is intrigued by A ball pitcher Tyler Galsow who has been very good minus his walk rate...but he's another 19 year old and 6'-7" and scouts slobber all over that...FB and CB have potential to both be plus...that being said I would think Luhnow would still ask for more...would love for them to land another arm in this deal. The Orioles have shown alot of interest in Norris so maybe if a deal is not on the table tonight he can go out and have a good showing against them to help drive up his stock...if anything is close to happening look for Norris to be scratched

 

I'll be damned...as soon as I hit post I look and see that Lucas Harrell will start in place of Norris...now we just wait and see

[Big T]

Looking like it's going to be a package based around Glasnow. I can't find out who the other player or players are but Glasnow looks to be a very good prospect. He is ranked at number 7 in the best farm system in the Majors after starting the season number 19.

 

http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2013/index.jsp?c_id=pit#list=pit

 

Here are his stats from this season. I really like this kid. Young, big, projectable could be a nice pick up for the Astros here. Can't wait to see who else is coming with him. Of course it may not be him at all lol. This is all just speculation for now.

[Big T]

Well, so far there is no news on the Norris front but there is some good news. The White Sox have decided to not trade Jake Peavy. This means there are only two starting pitchers on the trade front. Bud Norris and Cliff Lee. The Phillies are asking an absurd price for Lee so right now anyone who is looking for SP is looking to Houston. Norris's trade value has gone up even more. Thank you White Sox!

[Big T]

Welllllll, after all of the talk about Peavy being off the block, he is traded to the BoSox in a three team trade that also included Detroit. Norris is now the only pitcher left besides Lee. Should be interesting.

 

[KABrother88]

It appears that Pittsburg is now unwilling to let go of Glasnow...Arizona (who was making a push for Peavy) is also a player in the mix now. Not sure what they are willing to give up but they have a guy in AA who I like...LHP David Holmberg...he isn't a big strikeout guy but has 4 pitches and throws a sinking fastball which Luhnow said earlier this season is what they would like to have their rotation throwing. He has already logged 130 inning in 21 starts this season so he's shown he can go deep into games...compare that to Norris' 126 inning this year in the same number of starts...teams have been more reluctant to give up top prospects at the deadline the last few years but with Arizona having Skaggs, Kennedy and Corbin in the Majors and Archie Bradley on the way and now looking up at LAD they may be more willing to give up Holmberg...guess we will just have to wait and see what happens...just hope Luhnow doesn't make a deal to make a deal...Norris can still have value in the offseason

[Big T]

Agreed KA, but his value will never be higher than it is right now. You also forgot Baltimore who at this point may be the biggest player for Norris.

[KABrother88]

True Baltimore is now a big player in this with Peavy going to a division rival. Bundy and Gausman are gonna be untouchable of course and personally i would love to get a LHP in return...Baltimore does have a few that are listed in their top 20 but non of them really stand out to me aside from maybe Eduardo Rodriguez who Baltimore may view as untouchable as well.

 

As for Norris' value, yes it is at an all time high at this point but to me with the new CBA rules regarding signing of free agents and losing draft picks, Norris will still have good value at seasons end from a team that does not want to give up the pick to sign a pitcher. I more made the comment as to say don't trade Norris for a bucket of balls cause its the deadline...if the offer is there and it seems good then by all means take it

 

mlbtraderumors.com is reporting that the Giants, Rangers, and Braves have all joined the party in some form as well...also says that "The Astros need to lower their asking price on Norris significantly for the Orioles to be serious players"

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/houston_astros/

[KABrother88]

Justin Maxwell has been sent to KC...didn't see that one coming...still waiting to see what we got in return...good day to have AutoCAD down at work so I can track all the Bud Norris reports lol

[KABrother88]

Justin Maxwell to KC for RHP Kyle Smith and Bud Norris to Baltimore for OF L.J. Hoes, LHP Josh Hader and the second pick in Comp Round A

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/houston_astros/

 

Kyle Smith was KC's #11 prospect according to MLB.com

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=smith-005kyl

 

Josh Hader was Baltimore's #5 prospect

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hader-000jos

 

L.J. Hoes was Baltimore's #7 prospect

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hoes--001jer

 

Overall I like both deals

[Big T]

The Maxwell trade is amazing.

 

The Norris trade was a little disappointing at first but got much better as more and more info began to emerge. The Astros traded Bud Norris and the number 91 international bonus slot worth 213K for Hadder, Hoes, and the number 33 overall supplemental draft pick in 2014 worth 1.588MM!!!!!!!!!! This is Awesome! Luhnow Strikes Again!

 

 

[KABrother88]

I definintly think Luhnow did a great job with this...while I would have liked to have seen Rodriguez come from Baltimore we would not have been able to land another good prospect in the trade or the draft pick. All three players acquired today are listed in our top 20 prospects now...Hader at 13, Smith at 15, and Hoes at 18...also Hader has been pitching at class A so I'm assuming he will be sent to our class A affiliate in Quad Cities...that would give us Appel (for now), McCullers, Velasquez, and Hader in a rotation together...all in our top 13

[Guest eagle eye]

Unlike the Veras trade I have to agree with you guys today's moves were more like it. Unfortunately, I wasn't on top of this today because my equipment didn't malfunction! (ha). The best thing was the addition of 2 pitchers to the system. I worry about Kyle Smith's size (6'0" 170 lbs). He certainly isn't what most teams are looking for dimension wise but if Tim Lincicum and Roy Oswalt taught us anything it's that you don't have to be 6'5" and 230 lbs to be a good pitcher.

I was disappointed about the trade when I heard Norris was dealt to Baltimore because I heard about it on ESPN radio on "The Drive" and Fred Faour said all Houston got in the deal was a so-so minor league outfielder. I was thinking that maybe Luhnow had lost his mind. Imagine my pleasent surprise when I see KABrother88 and Big T's posts about the deals. The Drive guys totally messed up the reports on the Norris-Maxwell deals. I don't know why I bother listening to that show--it truly sucks.

Good job, Jeff and way to go Astros!