*Rumored Lamar to FBS discussion*

[Guest Mint]

Keep the envy coming, boys. It isn't because we think we're better athletically, it's that we are more poised for the transition. We have the coaches, facilities, budget, etc to be competitive in the WAC. My point all along has been - do yall? If the answer is no, then you're not going to get the Bobcat's blessing.

 

Envy? I don't really know who that is aimed at. No one has said anything about being envious. In fact all I have said regarding TxSt in this thread is that I thought your school would do well in the WAC. I also said that TxSt San Marcos will never be the flagship neither will LU or SHSU. Can we just drop that discussion?

 

The David G. Burnett and LBJ suggestions are jokes, and light hearted ones at that. If you can't take a joke you should find some different reading material.

 

As far as being ready for the WAC, yes LU can compete in the WAC. We have very good facilities and there is not much needed for us to get ready beyond a football stadium expansion. Please tell me what about LU in the WAC concerns you and then we can have a real discussion.

 

Thanks for joining and have a great Easter. :)

 

Haha, I wasn't referring to the flagship discussion. Let's save that for another day. I am all for jokes coming from our two little sisters and think they are in good fun; I was referring to how the last two pages (maybe more, I only read the last two) are directly aimed at Texas State. What better way to make an entrance than to call it envy? ;)

 

What concerns me the most is your football program and it's recent history (or lack thereof). I'm concerned you haven't worked out the kinks or experienced very many growing pains yet (directly referencing the wow factor wearing off of a new program and people start losing interest once your W/L settles in a little deeper). I'm concerned your budget isn't up to par, or that your football coaching staff isn't up to snuff for the level of competition we (UTSA and TXST) are entering.. in fact, I think the same thing about UTSA's staff outside Larry Coker and our staff prior to Fran.

 

Where I see hope is your attendance and support.

[Guest Mint]

LOL you come on to this board and because there are a couple of comments you don't like you want to start some type of pissing match about TxSt and how great it is? No one here is trashing your school! Do you have little man issues?

That's it - Little man issues. No, I was specifically responding to a smart ass response asking which facilities I was referring to.

 

LU's had the highest paid basketball coach in the SLC since Roc was hired. Txst - San Marcos didn't upgrade it's stadium or coaching staff until AFTER they got invited to the WAC.

Oh come on - you don't think there was a plan in place to upgrade our facilities prior to the invite? Ever heard of our marketing campaign "The Drive?" It's the reason we built new softball and baseball facilities. It's the reason we built on a club and suite level to Bobcat Stadium. It's the reason we had the plans to bowl out our stadium. It's the reason we are in the process of maxing out our student fees to $20 p/ credit hour to afford a better coaching staff. It's the reason we are where we are! I never said LU wasn't WAC material, all I said was there are a few things you need to do prior to getting that golden ticket.

 

That's another thing. Y'all should get out of the mindset that Texas State fans are trying to keep you out. We are well aware of the WAC's current state. We know Western FCS schools cannot afford the move right now (looking at you Montana). We just want those next to be invited to be prepared for what they have in store and not become the next Western Kentucky.

[jdcurran235]

As CA talked about about above, money is not an issue. The only possible issue is we are an FBS transition as you are and UTSA. TxSt is in a little better position just because you have had a football team for awhile but it will be a tough transition for you guys as well. LU has always had the best fan support in the SLC and I dont see that stopping anytime soon. I see pluses and minuses to all three schools but I believe they are all three equal and should all do equally well.

[Guest bigred360]

We've all seen your future upgrades and they are nice. I especially like the track and field facility and wish Lamar would move Ty Terrell to a different location. Maybe even combining the soccer and track into one complex.

 

Believe me, as of right before you renovate your stadium Lamar has the best football facilities in the SLC.

 

After you complete your renovation project I'll admit yours is nicer.

 

Coaches ready for the WAC? Now how can we honestly answer that question with a Head Football Coach in his second year of competition and first in the SLC. We have a new Head Men's Basketball coach. There may be a new WBB coach or Coach Tidwell may give up his AD duties. Not sure he is going to continue doing both. Then the soccer program is 4 years old but we had a joke for a coach the first year. We have to hire someone for softball.

 

But, I can say with confidence that we have the right leadership but make the right decision and lead us through this conference realignment stuff. The WAC may not be best for Lamar it may be another FBS conference.

[Guest CardAmbassador]

Keep the envy coming, boys. It isn't because we think we're better athletically, it's that we are more poised for the transition. We have the coaches, facilities, budget, etc to be competitive in the WAC. My point all along has been - do yall? If the answer is no, then you're not going to get the Bobcat's blessing.

 

Envy? I don't really know who that is aimed at. No one has said anything about being envious. In fact all I have said regarding TxSt in this thread is that I thought your school would do well in the WAC. I also said that TxSt San Marcos will never be the flagship neither will LU or SHSU. Can we just drop that discussion?

 

The David G. Burnett and LBJ suggestions are jokes, and light hearted ones at that. If you can't take a joke you should find some different reading material.

 

As far as being ready for the WAC, yes LU can compete in the WAC. We have very good facilities and there is not much needed for us to get ready beyond a football stadium expansion. Please tell me what about LU in the WAC concerns you and then we can have a real discussion.

 

Thanks for joining and have a great Easter. :)

 

Haha, I wasn't referring to the flagship discussion. Let's save that for another day. I am all for jokes coming from our two little sisters and think they are in good fun; I was referring to how the last two pages (maybe more, I only read the last two) are directly aimed at Texas State. What better way to make an entrance than to call it envy? ;)

 

What concerns me the most is your football program and it's recent history (or lack thereof). I'm concerned you haven't worked out the kinks or experienced very many growing pains yet (directly referencing the wow factor wearing off of a new program and people start losing interest once your W/L settles in a little deeper). I'm concerned your budget isn't up to par, or that your football coaching staff isn't up to snuff for the level of competition we (UTSA and TXST) are entering.. in fact, I think the same thing about UTSA's staff outside Larry Coker and our staff prior to Fran.

 

Where I see hope is your attendance and support.

 

Well if you would have used context clues you would have seen that the post were far from cries of envy and were more along the lines of complaint over arrogance coming from San Marcos. (those complaints were not mine)

 

Your "little sisters" comment demonstrates exactly what type of poster you are. The structure of the TSUS prevents any of our schools from ever becoming a flagship. Let's not even save that discussion for another day, it will never happen.

 

Your last comment is comical when viewed along side your previous statements. You aired your concern for our coaching staff and support and then stated the only hope you see is our support and attendance? Lamar has led the SLC in attendance almost every year. Our women's basketball team has more attendance than your men's on most nights.

 

Let me ask you something. TxSt - San Marcos fans have repeatedly stated how their attendance is going to go up substantially now that you're in the WAC playing schools people have actually heard of. Judging from the support LU receives at the FCS level in all sports why don't you think the same would be true for Lamar? Why wouldn't Lamar's attendance see a marked increase in attendance from the SLC to the WAC? In fact I would go so far as to say that if LU had the same stadium capacity as Txst and played in the WAC then we would probably out draw you. Not because either team would be better or worse, but because we are located in the heart of a MSA of 350k.

 

Please answer my questions don't dodge them.

[Guest CardAmbassador]

Mint the point is you didn't come into this discussion and make a very good first impression. The discussion regarding TxSt on this board has been very civil in comparison to what I have seen in other places on other boards.

 

If you have questions regarding LU's move to the WAC and our ability to do so why not come here and put the question to us without all of the swagger? We know more about LU than you and you know more about Txst - San Marcos than we do.

[LUSportsFan]

Hi Mint,

 

It was my response to you concerning "which facilities". It was not meant to be "smart assed". I just reread it and still don't read it like that. I apologize if it came over that way. I honestly wanted to know which facilities since I've been comparing the facilities at Lamar with other schools for some time since all this talk of possibly changing conferences came up. (I'm retired so I have a lot of spare time to kill.) :)

 

As mentioned above, we have seen the improvements either made at Texas State or that are in the mill. They are nice, really nice and I think you should rightly be very proud of them. That's why I added "with expansion" for the football stadium and "with improvements" for the basketball arena. I was trying to acknowledge that there were some more enhancements in progress without writing a book. I've read about those on the Texas State official site. They are nice.

 

On the other hand, there have been a lot of improvements at Lamar as well. The football stadium was redone last year. The only thing I would like is for the stadium to be expanded commensurate with the demand. Along with the football field renovations, a new state of the art training facility was built as well as practice fields. The baseball stadium had a new infield installed. It was a pretty nice stadium before that in part due to the fact that a Texas League baseball team played there and the owner helped with some improvements at that time. There is a new soccer field. There have been enhancements to the tennis facilities. Softball is in the works. There have been numerous other improvements on campus as well.

 

I like the direction that both schools are heading. Both are looking to the future. I hope Lamar gets an invite to the WAC and we accept because I would like to continue the rivalries with Texas State and UTSA. I also think it might be advantageous for Texas State and UTSA to have us there because it would give you an opponent that you don't have to break the bank to get to.

[Guest Mint]

Please answer my questions don't dodge them.

 

Ok, I tried my best not to dodge -

 

Little sisters? You're going to get butt hurt over that? It's referring to the fact that Texas State is the LARGEST school in the system. I want flagship status for my school just as much as the next guy, but I fully accept the make up of our system and understand that Sam Houston State, academically, has just as much of a reason to get it, just as their study said. I don't want to get into a flagship debate in a WAC thread; now, if you'd like to chat about it, I am all for naming the reasons why I think the system should designate a school with flagship status and would do so if it were in another thread.

 

You asked for my concerns. My first came with your coaching staff. Look at the folks who work under Ray and tell me what their FBS experience is like. Then look at your head coach and tell me what kind of experience he has building programs at the highest level or lifting assistants and coordinators up to FBS style of play. When you come back with "nada," that's where I get concerned. I think to myself "what if Lamar were to accept an invite with this staff."I think your program will see more and more losses and the growing pains will become present. Then I picture your support and attendance falling off because while now Beaumont has a program, they just aren't excited about it anymore because of its lack of competitiveness and know that they can sit the next game out and eventually return once the team starts winning again. So it's odd to answer because on one side, I think your strengths right now include your attendance and support; but on the other, if you can't sustain a competitive team at the next level, that's where you're going to fall. Again, right now I am specifically talking about football - not WBB or any other SLC sport.

 

I don't know if our attendance is going to increase substantially or not - one can only hope. But what I can tell you is this: we have a bunch of untapped alumni around Texas who are refusing to support an FCS team and wear other FBS team's jerseys. They have 10 other local teams to support who they find far more entertaining to watch. And along the same lines, we hope our students get more involved, too! We're trying to put a product out they'll care about - and that means increasing the level of play, changing the game day atmosphere, and bringing in proven coaches. I don't think we can compare programs quite yet (referring to your belief Lamar would outdraw TXST); while you might be right, I still think you have that new factor to you.. I'll talk about that 5 years down the road. 350,000 is great, but only if they care about seeing you play. If anyone, we should know - remember we have millions of people within 50 miles of us.

 

The last thing concerns the budget. I've seen it mentioned on here that because Louisiana Tech can compete with 15 million, you can too. Just remember Louisiana schools have a tendency to do a lot more with less - especially with football. La Tech is paying their head coach somewhere like $450,000, while we pay Fran $350,000 and have close to a $20 million budget. Or ULL for that matter. They just hired Hudspeth (sp?) at $350,000 and look at their budget!

[Guest Mint]

Hi Mint,

 

It was my response to you concerning "which facilities"...

 

I appreciate the nice things said regarding our facility expansion! I really like what y'all have done with football and think you came in right off the bat in the Southland's highest tier of facilities. What get's me though is not quality, but quantity. I guess I would like to see more than just fan renderings of what the place would be like accommodating more people. Or hear anything from y'alls athletic administration, for that matter. I'm also excited to hear of y'alls addition in softball. As you know, softball is one of Texas State's competitive sports and I welcome anyone that adds to the competition (one of the reasons I'll miss Hawaii actually).

[Guest CardAmbassador]

Please answer my questions don't dodge them.

 

Ok, I tried my best not to dodge -

 

Little sisters? You're going to get butt hurt over that? It's referring to the fact that Texas State is the LARGEST school in the system. I want flagship status for my school just as much as the next guy, but I fully accept the make up of our system and understand that Sam Houston State, academically, has just as much of a reason to get it, just as their study said. I don't want to get into a flagship debate in a WAC thread; now, if you'd like to chat about it, I am all for naming the reasons why I think the system should designate a school with flagship status and would do so if it were in another thread.

 

I never said I was hurt. That "little" comment was placed their to patronize, I simply noted that fact in my response to you. I would love to create a thread about flagship status and watch the mayhem ensue, but there is no point. We should all know by now that the structure of the TSUS doesn't allow for such a school to exist.

 

You asked for my concerns. My first came with your coaching staff. Look at the folks who work under Ray and tell me what their FBS experience is like. Then look at your head coach and tell me what kind of experience he has building programs at the highest level or lifting assistants and coordinators up to FBS style of play. When you come back with "nada," that's where I get concerned. I think to myself "what if Lamar were to accept an invite with this staff."I think your program will see more and more losses and the growing pains will become present. Then I picture your support and attendance falling off because while now Beaumont has a program, they just aren't excited about it anymore because of its lack of competitiveness and know that they can sit the next game out and eventually return once the team starts winning again. So it's odd to answer because on one side, I think your strengths right now include your attendance and support; but on the other, if you can't sustain a competitive team at the next level, that's where you're going to fall. Again, right now I am specifically talking about football - not WBB or any other SLC sport.

 

In regards to FBS experience on Ray's staff, Hinshaw, our defensive coordinator, worked at Rice before coming to LU. Other than him I doubt any of the remaining coaches have any solid FBS experience. But this issue is dead in the water anyways. TxSt - San Marcos only hired Fran because they knew they were going to FBS. I don't expect LU to hire FBS caliber coaches until we are certain that time is upon us. As others have mentioned Woodard is only in his first season, no judgement can really be handed down on the man yet. I would expect that if LU were to get a FBS invite tomorrow the Athletic Director at Lamar would monitor the 2011 season and based on those results we would determine how to proceed. Your concern is appreciated and noted, but don't you think our Athletic Director, that is infinitely more experienced than any of us at making decisions of this nature, would do the best thing for Lamar?

 

I don't know if our attendance is going to increase substantially or not - one can only hope. But what I can tell you is this: we have a bunch of untapped alumni around Texas who are refusing to support an FCS team and wear other FBS team's jerseys. They have 10 other local teams to support who they find far more entertaining to watch. And along the same lines, we hope our students get more involved, too! We're trying to put a product out they'll care about - and that means increasing the level of play, changing the game day atmosphere, and bringing in proven coaches. I don't think we can compare programs quite yet (referring to your belief Lamar would outdraw TXST); while you might be right, I still think you have that new factor to you.. I'll talk about that 5 years down the road. 350,000 is great, but only if they care about seeing you play. If anyone, we should know - remember we have millions of people within 50 miles of us.

 

That untapped potential goes for Lamar as well. You're correct we have the new factor, so maybe in a few years our attendance dies down to 12,000 but if we were playing FBS caliber opponents in 2015 I promise you Beaumont would be near the top not the bottom of the WAC attendance sheet.

 

San Marcos is within reach of both Austin and San Antonio but unfortunately you will not be able to get casual fans from either, both cities will have FBS teams by 2012. Beaumont is located 70 miles outside of Houston, where we have a very large alumni base. Houston has two FBS teams, but not teams of the caliber of UT. Not many people other than Alums of Rice and UH go to those schools games any given Saturday because they're in C-USA.

 

TxSt San Marcos' likely fan base will be - Alums from SA and Austin, students and the population immediately surrounding the school.

 

Lamar's likely fan base would be - Alums from Houston , students and the population from the immediately surrounding area.

 

In my opinion that gives us an equal if not larger fan base. This isn't a quantifiable matter currently nor is it terribly important. I only wanted to lay out my reasoning for you.

 

 

The last thing concerns the budget. I've seen it mentioned on here that because Louisiana Tech can compete with 15 million, you can too. Just remember Louisiana schools have a tendency to do a lot more with less - especially with football. La Tech is paying their head coach somewhere like $450,000, while we pay Fran $350,000 and have close to a $20 million budget. Or ULL for that matter. They just hired Hudspeth (sp?) at $350,000 and look at their budget!

 

A dollar is a dollar, Louisiana is not some magical realm where the rules of arithmetic don't apply. Do you doubt that LU would be able to spend $350k on a coach if ULL can? More goes into success than just salary where college athletics are concerned. Example: SHSU has dominated SLC basketball recently although LU has had the higher paid coach. There is something to be said for hiring the right guy.

 

 

Thanks for the response, I truly appreciate it. (no I'm not being sarcastic) I felt like this was much more constructive than our first exchange. I look forward to speaking with you more on this topic and many more. Again, welcome to BRI.

[BigRedTrack]

This thread has really been interesting but not very relavent. All I know is my brother graduated from SWT in the late '70s and he stated that he & most of his friends from there no longer contribute to the school since the name change to Texas State ("I graduated from SWT, not TxSt"). I remember the media reports at the time was because the school wanted to get rid of the perception of a regional school and wanted a name indicative of a broader base of students.

[jdcurran235]

That is exactly how everyone I know who graduated from SWT reacted as well. They should really change their name back to SWT, but that would mean that they would have to admit they made a mistake. To any TxSt posters I dont mean any disrespect by what I am saying.

[LUSportsFan]

Those feelings may be short lived in many cases, though. Some of my friends who graduated from USL (ULL now) had similar feelings originally, but I think they are ok with the new name now.

[jdcurran235]

The SWT feelings are not short lived as they are with USL / ULL. I am not real sure why as I did not graduate from SWT, but SWT grads still hate the name change. The change has been there for a while now.

[coachacola]

So how did this thread turn into a discussion about the Texas State name change? :laugh:

[TexGator]

Murmurs out of the Sun Belt Conference....

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/22/2183125/vote-on-expansion-during-spring.html

 

Basically, it talks about that the Sun Belt, while looking for an 11th (and eventually 12th) member may not be voting on it any time soon.

 

The current apple-of-the-eye is LA Tech. If the Techsters do stay with the WAC, while SHSU and Lamar don't fit the current profile for the Sun Belt's desires, they are a matching set that would set up 2 divisions of the Sun Belt rather nicely:

 

East:

Florida Atlantic

Florida International

Middle Tennessee St.

South Alabama

Troy

Western Kentucky

 

West:

Arkansas St.

Lamar

Louisiana-Lafayette

Louisiana-Monroe

North Texas

Sam Houston St.

 

I'm just sayin'...

[Guest CardAmbassador]

I honestly don't mind any invite at this point. Although if the WAC survives I honestly see it as the better conference. The reason LU would be more interested in the SBC is the amount of former rivals it contains, and how regional it is.

[jdcurran235]

I honestly don't mind any invite at this point. Although if the WAC survives I honestly see it as the better conference. The reason LU would be more interested in the SBC is the amount of former rivals it contains, and how regional it is.

 

I like the idea of traveling west to get our name more known throughout the country.

[TexGator]

I honestly don't mind any invite at this point. Although if the WAC survives I honestly see it as the better conference. The reason LU would be more interested in the SBC is the amount of former rivals it contains, and how regional it is.

 

I like the idea of traveling west to get our name more known throughout the country.

 

While getting the name our there is nice, I don't think our name will be much better known by being in the WAC. And the trips out to Logan, UT; Moscow, ID; and San Jose, CA are going to pay off as much as using that money to expand academic offerings.

 

The difference between a flight to Logan, UT and a drive to Mobile, AL is enough to send one of the admissions recruiters across the country for a year.

[jdcurran235]

I honestly don't mind any invite at this point. Although if the WAC survives I honestly see it as the better conference. The reason LU would be more interested in the SBC is the amount of former rivals it contains, and how regional it is.

 

I like the idea of traveling west to get our name more known throughout the country.

 

While getting the name our there is nice, I don't think our name will be much better known by being in the WAC. And the trips out to Logan, UT; Moscow, ID; and San Jose, CA are going to pay off as much as using that money to expand academic offerings.

 

The difference between a flight to Logan, UT and a drive to Mobile, AL is enough to send one of the admissions recruiters across the country for a year.

 

That is true but the money for sports does not effect what we spend on academics. State laws prevent that from happening.

[TexGator]

I honestly don't mind any invite at this point. Although if the WAC survives I honestly see it as the better conference. The reason LU would be more interested in the SBC is the amount of former rivals it contains, and how regional it is.

 

I like the idea of traveling west to get our name more known throughout the country.

 

While getting the name our there is nice, I don't think our name will be much better known by being in the WAC. And the trips out to Logan, UT; Moscow, ID; and San Jose, CA are going to pay off as much as using that money to expand academic offerings.

 

The difference between a flight to Logan, UT and a drive to Mobile, AL is enough to send one of the admissions recruiters across the country for a year.

 

That is true but the money for sports does not effect what we spend on academics. State laws prevent that from happening.

 

Legally, morally, and ethically... you are correct. In reality, if athletics runs a deficit, it has to be made up somehow to pay the bills.

[jdcurran235]

http://forums.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=451&f=2368&t=7466283

 

No new bowl games for at least three years

[Guest CardAmbassador]

Clues to a possible conference move:

 

Softball addition in 2013 (these female scholarships would offset the additional football scholarships required in an FBS conference)

 

Pat Knight hire - not necessarily indicative of a move to FBS, but he brings national recognition. His remarks about moving to a different conference in the future are interesting as well.

 

TSUS Board meeting - Lamar's athletic fee was an agenda item at the last TSUS meeting (February). An increase would indicated LU gearing up for a possible move.

[BigRedTrack]

Clues to a possible conference move:

 

Softball addition in 2013 (these female scholarships would offset the additional football scholarships required in an FBS conference)

 

Pat Knight hire - not necessarily indicative of a move to FBS, but he brings national recognition. His remarks about moving to a different conference in the future are interesting as well.

 

TSUS Board meeting - Lamar's athletic fee was an agenda item at the last TSUS meeting (February). An increase would indicated LU gearing up for a possible move.

 

All makes sense to me, especially the addition of softball.

[coachacola]

They TSUS website should be posting the results of last quarter's meeting within a few weeks so we should know the details about athletic fee soon. These meetings are open to the public so someone at Lamar should already know what was discussed.