*Rumored Lamar to FBS discussion*

[D301Bhoys]

@ NorthoftheBorder: I disagree on the viability of FCS. I don't think it's going anywhere nor undergoing any major changes. If that were true, a greater number of established institutions/programs would be actively pursuing a jump. It's overwhelmingly start-ups like USA and UTSA who are blowing through FCS into FBS leagues.

 

I do think that non-BCS FBS leagues are second-class leagues.

 

One could make a fairly persuasive argument that the prestige difference between FCS and non-BCS FBS affiliation isn't worth the financial burden to the institution. If I recall, that's the calculus Montana came up with and it's probably the view which Appalachian State is going to end up having as well.

 

Of course, that's speculation and it's a valid point that if Lamar really wants to be FBS, timing is extremely relevant.

[coachacola]

I think Utah State, San Jose State and Idaho will get out of the WAC the first chance they get. The NCAA has guaranteed the WAC will remain a FBS conference as long as they have at least 8 football schools (with a two year grace period). If those teams leave then I could see Louisiana-Lafayette, North Texas and Arkansas State jumping from the Sun Belt to the WAC. Throw in Lamar, maybe SHSU or some other schools and that's just as good as the Sun Belt and very easy on the travel budget.

[Guest NorthoftheBorder]

@ NorthoftheBorder: I disagree on the viability of FCS. I don't think it's going anywhere nor undergoing any major changes. If that were true, a greater number of established institutions/programs would be actively pursuing a jump. It's overwhelmingly start-ups like USA and UTSA who are blowing through FCS into FBS leagues.

 

I do think that non-BCS FBS leagues are second-class leagues.

 

One could make a fairly persuasive argument that the prestige difference between FCS and non-BCS FBS affiliation isn't worth the financial burden to the institution. If I recall, that's the calculus Montana came up with and it's probably the view which Appalachian State is going to end up having as well.

 

Of course, that's speculation and it's a valid point that if Lamar really wants to be FBS, timing is extremely relevant.

 

There is very little national interest in FCS and only minor regional interest. It doesn't make money and has almost no TV coverage. It just doesn't bring anything to the table to justify it's existence and could be absorbed into DII. None of us can predict what will happen, but my philosiphy is that it is better to protect your interests by manuvering into a position that prevents choices being made for you that you do not want. IMHO, that could happen with FCS.

[Guest NorthoftheBorder]

I think Utah State, San Jose State and Idaho will get out of the WAC the first chance they get. The NCAA has guaranteed the WAC will remain a FBS conference as long as they have at least 8 football schools (with a two year grace period). If those teams leave then I could see Louisiana-Lafayette, North Texas and Arkansas State jumping from the Sun Belt to the WAC. Throw in Lamar, maybe SHSU or some other schools and that's just as good as the Sun Belt and very easy on the travel budget.

 

Would the NCAA allow this and keep FBS status?

[Guest CardAmbassador]

I've seen the Sun Belt as a more logical partner in the future for a while.

 

If LU wants to go FBS, then the SBC is the only place it really fits. If the Big East raids C-USA, then C-USA might reach into the Sun Belt and the provide an opportunity to move up.

 

The real question is if LU fits in FBS.

 

I read in the Beaumont Enterprise President Simmons quoted saying "If an invitation were forthcoming, Lamar University would give it serious consideration. Ultimately, it would be in our best interest to do so." He's only saying they would consider it and he's right. You have to think about it if a league wants you. The same article quotes WAC Commissioner Karl Benson: "Lamar is not being considered for membership in the WAC."

 

They sort of have to want you first.

 

This back and forth riddle has been solved. Lamar wants to go FBS, Lamar will examine in FBS option and accept it if the terms are reasonable. Some schools want Lamar in the WAC but there are others that don't. The WAC is geographically spread out so you will always have a west vs. east dilemma.

 

One could make a fairly persuasive argument that the prestige difference between FCS and non-BCS FBS affiliation isn't worth the financial burden to the institution. If I recall, that's the calculus Montana came up with and it's probably the view which Appalachian State is going to end up having as well.

 

Of course, that's speculation and it's a valid point that if Lamar really wants to be FBS, timing is extremely relevant.

 

I think the premise of your argument is flawed. The prestige and recognition of some FCS schools and conferences is very similar to that of the 2012 WAC or the Sun Belt. But the Southland Conference is in a much different position than the Big Sky or Appy State. The Big Sky finds its self in a FBS barren region of the country so it does considerably better than the Southland. East Coast FCS football is also very different than what the Southland offers: programs situated in areas of large population density, where basketball is an equal or greater partner in sports patronage etc.

 

It's not that the schools want to leave FCS, it's that schools want to leave the Southland. TxSt, UTSA, Lamar and SHSU have or want to leave. We risk dying on the vine if we stay in the SLC.

 

I think Utah State, San Jose State and Idaho will get out of the WAC the first chance they get. The NCAA has guaranteed the WAC will remain a FBS conference as long as they have at least 8 football schools (with a two year grace period). If those teams leave then I could see Louisiana-Lafayette, North Texas and Arkansas State jumping from the Sun Belt to the WAC. Throw in Lamar, maybe SHSU or some other schools and that's just as good as the Sun Belt and very easy on the travel budget.

 

I agree that USU, SJSU and Idaho will leave the WAC for their first offer from another FBS conference.

 

But why would this departure trigger ULL, UNT and ASU to move to the WAC. They would be leaving the stable Sun Belt for a very shaky WAC with several recent FCS move ups.

[D301Bhoys]

@ CardAmbassador: I didn't think of the relative health of the leagues. That's a good point.

 

It's clear you believe that the Lamar leadership's mind is made up.

 

What's clear to me is that it will not be the WAC. Commissioners - typically a slippery bunch - do not tend to make definitive statements about anything, let along potential members in a climate of expansion. When they do, it's generally not to the local newspaper of the institution in question. But then, it is Karl Benson and it's his backdoor shenanigans which put the WAC on death's door in the first place. Still, I don't think he's *that* incompetent.

[Bearkat25]

Whether Lamar wants to go to the Sunbelt or WAC is irrelevant. Lamar is going to an FBS conference at some point not because they prefer to but because txst has moved and SHSU is looking into a move as well. Like the Idaho AD said LU and SHSU would jump to the WAC in a heartbeat. Its only a matter of time before LU jumps. From a financial standpoint and a traveling standpoint the WAC would be less than desirable but, the old saying, “beggars can’t be choosers” holds true for LU and possibly SHSU in regards to FBS membership.

[Guest CardAmbassador]

Whether Lamar wants to go to the Sunbelt or WAC is irrelevant. Lamar is going to an FBS conference at some point not because they prefer to but because txst has moved and SHSU is looking into a move as well. Like the Idaho AD said LU and SHSU would jump to the WAC in a heartbeat. Its only a matter of time before LU jumps. From a financial standpoint and a traveling standpoint the WAC would be less than desirable but, the old saying, “beggars can’t be choosers” holds true for LU and possibly SHSU in regards to FBS membership.

 

Lamar planned to go FBS from day 1. They didn't bring back football to stay at FCS.

 

D301Bhoys wrote:

What's clear to me is that it will not be the WAC. Commissioners - typically a slippery bunch - do not tend to make definitive statements about anything, let along potential members in a climate of expansion. When they do, it's generally not to the local newspaper of the institution in question. But then, it is Karl Benson and it's his backdoor shenanigans which put the WAC on death's door in the first place. Still, I don't think he's *that* incompetent.

 

Here are some links:

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/utsa/2011/02/lamar-shs-not-primary-wac-targets/

 

http://utsafootball.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/lamar-shsu-uta-not-in-2012-wac-expansion-plans/

 

http://blog.beaumontenterprise.com/inthecards/2011/05/11/wac-commissioner-lamar-not-in-2012-expansion-plans/

 

All these articles confirm what you are saying. But they also leave the door open for future inclusion and consideration. Tom Burnett says Lamar and SHSU are not primary targets of the WAC.

[Guest LU4LIFE]

Whether Lamar wants to go to the Sunbelt or WAC is irrelevant. Lamar is going to an FBS conference at some point not because they prefer to but because txst has moved and SHSU is looking into a move as well. Like the Idaho AD said LU and SHSU would jump to the WAC in a heartbeat. Its only a matter of time before LU jumps. From a financial standpoint and a traveling standpoint the WAC would be less than desirable but, the old saying, “beggars can’t be choosers” holds true for LU and possibly SHSU in regards to FBS membership.

 

CA is right Lamar had a 5 year plan to be in the FBS when they brought football back. SHSU didn't even start talking about FBS until after all the talk about Lamar possibly making a move.

[TexasTerror]

Lamar is not interested in going FBS, per this quote... though the writer apparently is confused about what both of our schools are now...

 

Teague thinks the 10-team conference will remain intact for awhile. There have been rumors that Sam Houston State and Lamar had been interested in moving to Division I, but Teague said presidents and administrators at either school are not in favor of that, particularly after Western Athletic Conference officials have indicated it is not interested in annexing either.

 

http://thecabin.net/interact/opinion/columns/2011-05-27/more-uca%E2%80%99s-apr-and-some-southland-conference-adjustments

[BigRed98]

LU has openly announced it's interest in a jump up to FBC.

[Guest CardAmbassador]

Lamar is not interested in going FBS, per this quote... though the writer apparently is confused about what both of our schools are now...

 

Teague thinks the 10-team conference will remain intact for awhile. There have been rumors that Sam Houston State and Lamar had been interested in moving to Division I, but Teague said presidents and administrators at either school are not in favor of that, particularly after Western Athletic Conference officials have indicated it is not interested in annexing either.

 

http://thecabin.net/interact/opinion/columns/2011-05-27/more-uca%E2%80%99s-apr-and-some-southland-conference-adjustments

 

That's not what BRI reported when we spoke with our source a few weeks ago. They are a very good source and I would take their word over anyone else's including Mr. Tom Burnett himself.

[coachacola]

I don't think the administrators at either LU or SHSU would openly discuss their intentions to go FBS at the SLC meetings.

 

Teague thinks the 10-team conference will remain intact for awhile.

 

That's a very ambiguous statement. It just means neither LU or SHSU are leaving this year.

[Bearkat25]

I don't think the administrators at either LU or SHSU would openly discuss their intentions to go FBS at the SLC meetings.

 

Teague thinks the 10-team conference will remain intact for awhile.

 

That's a very ambiguous statement. It just means neither LU or SHSU are leaving this year.

 

BINGO! LU and or SHSU aren't going anywhere until 2014...

[Guest 76]

How about moving to the Mountain West.I think it wold be a lot better than the Wac. Much more Espn and they have there own tv network.

[Guest LU4LIFE]

How about moving to the Mountain West.I think it wold be a lot better than the Wac. Much more Espn and they have there own tv network.

 

76 I like the way you think, but thats never going to happen. Lamar is going to have to go into a bottom of the line FBS conference first and then try and work their way to a better conference. That is if Lamar wants to switch conferences again.

[Guest CardAmbassador]

How about moving to the Mountain West.I think it wold be a lot better than the Wac. Much more Espn and they have there own tv network.

 

76 I like the way you think, but thats never going to happen. Lamar is going to have to go into a bottom of the line FBS conference first and then try and work their way to a better conference. That is if Lamar wants to switch conferences again.

 

I think anyone would agree that the MWC is a far better conference. But Lamar will not move into the MWC straight from FCS. Lamar will be in either the Sun Belt or WAC in the next five years. Maybe in another 20 we could make it to the Mountain West, and that is a huge Maybe.

 

BTW check this out:

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/mountain-west-gaining-ground-for-bcs-waiver-122766663.html

 

The guy means AQ waiver not BCS.

[Guest 76]

How about a move to the Mountain West.They have there own Tv network. Also Lamar would be on ESPN and a lot more national exposer than the Wac. Coach Knight and Seve Alford are close friends at New Mexico.

[Big T]

The moutain west does noy need to take FCS schools. They can have their choice of schools that are BCS such as SJSU, Idaho, Houston, Rice, Utah State, etc.

[Guest CardAmbassador]

The moutain west does noy need to take FCS schools. They can have their choice of schools that are BCS such as SJSU, Idaho, Houston, Rice, Utah State, etc.

 

The MWC would be wise to grab up a team like Houston, I think Houston is one of the largest untapped schools in terms of potential. They have 38k students, were recently reclassified as a tier 1 school, and have good political and financial backing. People in Houston would support UofH better if UH could go big time in what I think of as the fringe AQ conference (MWC). The MWC is good enough to compete with some of the AQ conferences like the ACC, and Big East IMO.

[Bearkat25]

The moutain west does noy need to take FCS schools. They can have their choice of schools that are BCS such as SJSU, Idaho, Houston, Rice, Utah State, etc.

 

The MWC would be wise to grab up a team like Houston, I think Houston is one of the largest untapped schools in terms of potential. They have 38k students, were recently reclassified as a tier 1 school, and have good political and financial backing. People in Houston would support UofH better if UH could go big time in what I think of as the fringe AQ conference (MWC). The MWC is good enough to compete with some of the AQ conferences like the ACC, and Big East IMO.

 

UH only wants Big 12. A move to the MWC wouldn't do too much for the coogs. It would be seen as a lateral move to many alums and fans...

[Guest PNG1992]

The moutain west does noy need to take FCS schools. They can have their choice of schools that are BCS such as SJSU, Idaho, Houston, Rice, Utah State, etc.

 

The MWC would be wise to grab up a team like Houston, I think Houston is one of the largest untapped schools in terms of potential. They have 38k students, were recently reclassified as a tier 1 school, and have good political and financial backing. People in Houston would support UofH better if UH could go big time in what I think of as the fringe AQ conference (MWC). The MWC is good enough to compete with some of the AQ conferences like the ACC, and Big East IMO.

 

UH only wants Big 12. A move to the MWC wouldn't do too much for the coogs. It would be seen as a lateral move to many alums and fans...

 

 

Thats what they may want but UH will never be asked into the current Big XII.

[Big T]

Now that TCU is a member of the Big East i can see Houston getting an invite to the Big XII. Before, TCU was the best fit but now that they are gone and the Big XII decides it wants to expand who do you see them taking? ECU, Tulsa, Houston, Rice, BYU, Nevada, Boise but to do the last three they would have to be willing to go way west and i just don't see it.

[Guest CardAmbassador]

The moutain west does noy need to take FCS schools. They can have their choice of schools that are BCS such as SJSU, Idaho, Houston, Rice, Utah State, etc.

 

The MWC would be wise to grab up a team like Houston, I think Houston is one of the largest untapped schools in terms of potential. They have 38k students, were recently reclassified as a tier 1 school, and have good political and financial backing. People in Houston would support UofH better if UH could go big time in what I think of as the fringe AQ conference (MWC). The MWC is good enough to compete with some of the AQ conferences like the ACC, and Big East IMO.

 

UH only wants Big 12. A move to the MWC wouldn't do too much for the coogs. It would be seen as a lateral move to many alums and fans...

 

I agree, U of H does nothing for the Big XII. UH gives you the Houston market, which the Big XII already firmly controls. Tons of UT, TAMU, and Tech alum in Houston. MWC is a step up from C-USA IMO. But I get what you are saying. I'm only saying that a Big XII U of H will never happen.

 

Thats what they may want but UH will never be asked into the current Big XII.

 

Now that TCU is a member of the Big East i can see Houston getting an invite to the Big XII. Before, TCU was the best fit but now that they are gone and the Big XII decides it wants to expand who do you see them taking? ECU, Tulsa, Houston, Rice, BYU, Nevada, Boise but to do the last three they would have to be willing to go way west and i just don't see it.

 

Conference expansion in the Big XII is about, money. The Big XII schools all get around 20 million a piece from their TV deal, adding any of those teams you have mentioned outside of maybe BYU will do nothing but lose money for the current Big XII schools. Tulsa would get blocked by OU and OSU, Houston does nothing for the Big XII. TCU does nothing as well since there are tons of Big XII alums in the metroplex. Boise, not going to happen, have you looked at the population of Idaho and it's relation to the rest of the Big XII.

 

I just don't see any of these schools as options outside of BYU. BYU is a unique institution, it has a national following because it's a religious institution. I know several Mormons and BYU is like Mecca to them.

[Guest PNG1992]

Now that TCU is a member of the Big East i can see Houston getting an invite to the Big XII. Before, TCU was the best fit but now that they are gone and the Big XII decides it wants to expand who do you see them taking? ECU, Tulsa, Houston, Rice, BYU, Nevada, Boise but to do the last three they would have to be willing to go way west and i just don't see it.

 

As long as UT and aTm are in the Big XII don't expect any other Texas schools to be invited. They've been there, done that (SWC). Hell, they hate the fact that Tech and Baylor politically are stuck at the hip with them. If they had their way Baylor wouldnt be in the Big XII. Schools like UH, TCU, Baylor, etc add no value other than old school rivalry games to the conference. They don't add revenue because UT and aTm are the big boys in Texas.

 

If they ever expand before falling apart expect a school like BYU to be one of the invites. they have alot TV sets from a large media market in a different area of the country, and have a history. The drawback is not playing sports on Sundays. The dream 12th team for the Big XII would be Notre Dame. The Irish would be a great match to pair up with UT and they could bring their Notre Dame TV network with them. (which the Big 12 would allow). It's not gonna happen but that's what needs top happen to keep that conference afloat. The Big XII could attempt again to pry Arkie away from the SEC as the 12th team but that isn't likely to happen either.

 

Don't go by geography when thinking about the conferences anymore because it's just part of the equation but not the biggest factor. If it were TCU wouldnt be headed to the big east. :)