*Rumored Lamar to FBS discussion*

[jdcurran235]

There is still the SWAC and the southern conference

 

The SWAC is a step down in every sense of the word. No to the SWAC.

 

With what is left in the new SLC there is no longer much difference. The only thing that makes the SLC better is that we get to keep playing McNeese and SHSU.

[Guest CardAmbassador]

There is still the SWAC and the southern conference

 

The SWAC is a step down in every sense of the word. No to the SWAC.

 

With what is left in the new SLC there is no longer much difference. The only thing that makes the SLC better is that we get to keep playing McNeese and SHSU.

 

Don't get me wrong it stinks that TxSt in particular is leaving they were a good member to have, but I never cared for UTSA or UTA to begin with. The conference isn't as good as it was but that just means we should be able to dominate it. The best members are still in the conference too. SFA and McNeese were far superior to any of the departing members.

 

I don't see why you want to go independent. FCS, is not FBS but it's still football and it's entertaining to watch. The only reason I ever wanted to go FBS was for exposure.

[jdcurran235]

I still want to go FBS for exposure even if it is just as an independent. But that is not point I was trying to make. I think there needs to be a discussion of going independent and how it would work and that is the discussion I am trying to have here. My personal belief is that staying in the SLC will not progress the school as a whole but that is not where I am trying to take this discussion.

[Guest Crawfish]

I am fairly sure that there is a moratorium on new independents in the FBS. AS of now, I am pretty sure you must join a conference to play in the FBS. This may change in a few years, but I do not think it has yet.

 

As far as being as good as La Tech, UL Lafayette or UNT, I think it may be a bigger jump than it seems. Yes, FCS teams do occasionally beat FBS teams, but the statistic (as of 2010) is that the FBS teams wins 92% of those games played.

 

Being independent has almost killed several programs. It is difficult to schedule games (unless you want to be the BCS homecoming game of the week.) The smaller schools that you want to schedule either play conference teams, money games, or they will play a (once a year) FCS team. It also hurts recruiting because players want something to play for. A FBS conference chmpionship or even a 2nd or third place finish normally puts your team in a bowl game. An independent has no guarantees (unless you are Notre Dame or a service academy.) At least a FCS team has a shot at a playoff berth.

 

Sorry, but the indy route is suicide for a young program struggling to develop a fan base.

[LUSportsFan]

I am fairly sure that there is a moratorium on new independents in the FBS. AS of now, I am pretty sure you must join a conference to play in the FBS. This may change in a few years, but I do not think it has yet.

 

As far as being as good as La Tech, UL Lafayette or UNT, I think it may be a bigger jump than it seems. Yes, FCS teams do occasionally beat FBS teams, but the statistic (as of 2010) is that the FBS teams wins 92% of those games played.

 

Being independent has almost killed several programs. It is difficult to schedule games (unless you want to be the BCS homecoming game of the week.) The smaller schools that you want to schedule either play conference teams, money games, or they will play a (once a year) FCS team. It also hurts recruiting because players want something to play for. A FBS conference chmpionship or even a 2nd or third place finish normally puts your team in a bowl game. An independent has no guarantees (unless you are Notre Dame or a service academy.) At least a FCS team has a shot at a playoff berth.

Sorry, but the indy route is suicide for a young program struggling to develop a fan base.

 

If I recall going independent DI-AA was one of the things that helped the demise of the LU football team in 1989. There were other factors, of course, but we went from sellout games in the early 80's to no team after 1989. It was painful being in the stadium during the decline. Part of that was a lack of playing in a conference.

 

The American South was a non-football league. Football teams were either independents or affiliates with some in DI-AA and some in DI-A. LU went the independent route.

 

I would not like to see the team go that route even after the moratorium is lifted. If we are able to affiliate our football team with an FBS conference that might be a little better. I'm not much in favor of affiliates though. I see it as a "lesser of two evils" situation.

[jdcurran235]

But the how would it work if we went independent and is it possible is what would be interesting to figure out. Is there a situation where it might make more sense to be FBS independent. If we had a scheduling alliance to, lets say, C-USA, it might be worth being independent. If we only had a scheduling alliance with the SBC, then we are probably better off being in the SLC. Also I dont think recruits care that much about playing for a conference championship as there are many FBS conferences that dont have one. College players want to play in bowl games which can't happen at all in the FCS level.

 

Additionally by 2015 or 2016 we would no longer be new program (although still young) we would have hopefully developed a following by then. Also just cause in 89 it failed when we went independent (although I dont know if that is the real reason), it does not mean we would fail this time. We are better funded and situated to support an FBS team now.

 

Without a doubt you want to keep all of your other sports in a conference so you can qualify for the NCAA autobid. Scheduling would be impossible as well for the other sports without a conference.

[LUSportsFan]

But the how would it work if we went independent and is it possible is what would be interesting to figure out. Is there a situation where it might make more sense to be FBS independent. If we had a scheduling alliance to, lets say, C-USA, it might be worth being independent. If we only had a scheduling alliance with the SBC, then we are probably better off being in the SLC. Also I dont think recruits care that much about playing for a conference championship as there are many FBS conferences that dont have one. College players want to play in bowl games which can't happen at all in the FCS level.

 

Additionally by 2015 or 2016 we would no longer be new program (although still young) we would have hopefully developed a following by then. Also just cause in 89 it failed when we went independent (although I dont know if that is the real reason), it does not mean we would fail this time. We are better funded and situated to support an FBS team now.

 

Without a doubt you want to keep all of your other sports in a conference so you can qualify for the NCAA autobid. Scheduling would be impossible as well for the other sports without a conference.

 

I agree with 99% of what you are saying. If the moratorium is lifted and going independent is the only way to get to FBS, then I would say go for it or at least explore that route. If we fully understand the issues and challenges, then we can possibly mitigate some of the problems. A scheduling alliance would be one option to mitigate the problems.

 

At any rate, I think that we as a fan base need to take partial ownership in the program. Based on the comments on this board I sense that is happening.

 

Going independent wasn't the only factor that caused the end of the program in '89, but I think it was one of them. I think fair weather fans coupled with poor program performance helped. I think all three factors were all tied together...kind of like the perfect storm. It's just something to watch out for.

[Guest Crawfish]

The only scenario I can see that would make the indy route plausable would be a situation where there was already a committment from a conference that will admit the cards conference in a 2-3 year time frame. (after the Cards move up)

 

Right now, the Cards need to concentrate on winning a conference championship and prove they belong. They also need to stop scheduling sub-FCS programs. That will help with their chances greatly.

[Guest CardAmbassador]

Right now, the Cards need to concentrate on winning a conference championship and prove they belong. They also need to stop scheduling sub-FCS programs. That will help with their chances greatly.

 

We're in the SLC for now, if we truly believe it's an inferior conference lets start winning. Winning increases fan support no matter what level you play at. If basketball turns around and football is even decent then we will get some looks eventually.

 

Besides, I don't want to be one of those schools that's a jerk to our past conference just because we are leaving. (Boise) The SLC certainly hasn't been mean or unfair to us IMO.

[LUSportsFan]

The only scenario I can see that would make the indy route plausable would be a situation where there was already a committment from a conference that will admit the cards conference in a 2-3 year time frame. (after the Cards move up)

 

Right now, the Cards need to concentrate on winning a conference championship and prove they belong. They also need to stop scheduling sub-FCS programs. That will help with their chances greatly.

 

I agree with that. We need both to make the program viable in the long run and more attractive for any move up possibilities.

[Rev at lumberjackfans.com]

If you seriously threaten the SLC to pull your sports out, the SLC is just going to laugh and say "go for it, and you can pay us a nice chunk of change to do it..."

 

The SLC lost UTSA, and UTA..two basketball only schools while they were in conference.

 

Tx State wasn't exactly a powerhouse in recent years...

 

The top schools in football are not going anywhere, and realistically, Lamar and SHSU are both wayyyyyyyyyyyyy down on the pecking order in regards to moving up.

 

Live in the now, build up your football program.

[Guest bigred360]

Rev. if the Montana Schools say no to the WAC again, there is a very good chance Lamar will be invited. I may save this post for future reference and a little laugh to myself.

 

Did you really think the WAC would invite UTA? Come on, let's be honest here. Now, I thought they were way down the pecking order. We'll see in a few years if the WAC made the right choice in who to invite. LOL

 

SFA, now they are way down the pecking order not because they are terrible in sports but because they are in the middle of nowhere.

[Guest bigred360]

Right now, the Cards need to concentrate on winning a conference championship and prove they belong. They also need to stop scheduling sub-FCS programs. That will help with their chances greatly.

 

We're in the SLC for now, if we truly believe it's an inferior conference lets start winning. Winning increases fan support no matter what level you play at. If basketball turns around and football is even decent then we will get some looks eventually.

 

Besides, I don't want to be one of those schools that's a jerk to our past conference just because we are leaving. (Boise) The SLC certainly hasn't been mean or unfair to us IMO.

 

I agree with you as we need to win in the major sports especially. Football, MBB, WBB, baseball and continue to dominate in golf, womens tennis and cross country. Then we need to improve vastly in soccer, volleyball, track and field, men's tennis and softball when it becomes an offical sport.

 

We were charter members of the SLC and when we left the Sun Belt they welcomed us back. So, although I'd like to be in a FBS conference for national exposure for the university I appreciate the leadership of the SLC and the other member schools.

[coachacola]

There's a new rule that prevents teams from going independent at the FBS level. Even if there wasn't such a rule Lamar doesn't have the money to do that. Scheduling would be a nightmare and besides, the SLC would kick us out of the conference.

 

Staying in the SLC and building up the football program is not a bad thing. If Lamar can't win in the SLC then they certainly can't win in a FBS conference with school with double the athletic budgets.

[TexGator]

If you seriously threaten the SLC to pull your sports out, the SLC is just going to laugh and say "go for it, and you can pay us a nice chunk of change to do it..."

 

The SLC lost UTSA, and UTA..two basketball only schools while they were in conference.

 

Tx State wasn't exactly a powerhouse in recent years...

 

The top schools in football are not going anywhere, and realistically, Lamar and SHSU are both wayyyyyyyyyyyyy down on the pecking order in regards to moving up.

 

Live in the now, build up your football program.

 

You're right- we need to build up our program. But, of any of our conference brethren to talk about building up, I think it comes across better from McNeese- who has been a quality program for nearly 20 years. SFA, until Jeremy Moses took over at QB, was a perennial also-ran. We'll see if y'all can continue it with the new QB.

[jdcurran235]

You are right coach, but the question is about going independent in 5 to 6 years after we have had some time to build up and by then the budget may be available to do so. So what scenario makes it viable to go independent. Also, I know they made the rule about FCS move ups but from what I understand you can still petition the NCAA to move up.

[Bearkat25]

There are rumors of Utah State leaving the WAC (bobcatreport). This conference just got A LOT less attractive. This must hurt for UTSA and Txst who thought they would be in a conference with schools like Utah State. With the possible defection of Utah State and others likely to follow, I'm starting to like the WAC less and less...

[Guest CardAmbassador]

There are rumors of Utah State leaving the WAC (bobcatreport). This conference just got A LOT less attractive. This must hurt for UTSA and Txst who thought they would be in a conference with schools like Utah State. With the possible defection of Utah State and others likely to follow, I'm starting to like the WAC less and less...

 

If that is true then you will likely see San Jose state leave too. I just can't see them staying without USU.

[jdcurran235]

Both Jack and Ryan are now hearing the same thing from unconfirmed sources. The only way I see this as true is if the MWC has extended an invite to USU.

[Wakasaki808]

There are rumors of Utah State leaving the WAC (bobcatreport). This conference just got A LOT less attractive. This must hurt for UTSA and Txst who thought they would be in a conference with schools like Utah State. With the possible defection of Utah State and others likely to follow, I'm starting to like the WAC less and less...

 

If that is true then you will likely see San Jose state leave too. I just can't see them staying without USU.

 

Jack has pretty much broke up this rumor...

 

Jack's quote:

"I think I have gotten to the bottom of this and it's pretty harmless. Utah State wants a date with Air Force in 2012 and the conference office got involved.

 

edit: Sept 15 2012 is the date in question."

[Guest CardAmbassador]

There are rumors of Utah State leaving the WAC (bobcatreport). This conference just got A LOT less attractive. This must hurt for UTSA and Txst who thought they would be in a conference with schools like Utah State. With the possible defection of Utah State and others likely to follow, I'm starting to like the WAC less and less...

 

If that is true then you will likely see San Jose state leave too. I just can't see them staying without USU.

 

Jack has pretty much broke up this rumor...

 

Jack's quote:

"I think I have gotten to the bottom of this and it's pretty harmless. Utah State wants a date with Air Force in 2012 and the conference office got involved.

 

edit: Sept 15 2012 is the date in question."

 

Not that it means much to us. We were stiffed by the WAC for UTA. To this day I scratch my head.

[BigRed98]

From a football standpoint, I look at the teams in the WAC and the teams in the Sun Belt and I honestly believe that the WAC still has more talent. That being said, I think the Sun Belt is far easier on Lamar's budget. I'm really starting to hope for a SB invite in the next few/several years.

 

In my big dreams, Lamar improves as they enter FBS, and gets a C-USA invite around the time I retire :)

 

As some of you have said, my main reason for wanting LU to go FBS is also for better exposure. I'm not down on the SLC, but I don't see any possible way the university can maintain it's current rate of growth if it stays with the SLC. We need the stigma of being FBS to continue the pace. I remember before I realized that some I-AA schools were actually better schools than some I-A schools, I thought that AA schools were crap. It effected my total perception of the school. I'm sure I'm not the only person that has thought this way. I was once an assistant principal of a West End school in Beaumont, and I'll tell you LU had poor perception. Kids looked at Baylor, UT, ATM, TT, etc, etc, etc. LU was only discussed by the kids who could not afford to stay in dorms and did not have scholarships to help them out. I tried to talk up the university, but there wasn't much to promote at the time. To be fair, I couldn't tell you what the kids actually did when they graduated. I'm just saying their plans were to go to the big schools. Many of them could have actually wound up at LU for all I know.

 

Also, I keep imagining what going FBS will do for this area. Imagine the travel through the airport as schools that have fans that travel better come to play us. Sure many will fly into Houston, but it will immediately impact the regional airport as well. If handled properly, the airport could grow from this. All surrounding businesses can grow, especially all these hotels that will struggle to stay open as refinery construction concludes over the next few years.

 

I guess the strategy of taking the first conference to invite is how you handle it. Maybe we can knock down an SLC championship and a good playoff run in the time we'll have before a move is made. That will help recruiting as well.

[Guest farmfanucdgrad]

There are nothing but rumors upon rumors concerning the WAC and actually every other conference above them. Yes they desperately want western time zone teams but I can't see how Lamar will not be part of this conference within the next two years unless Lamar somehow ends up in the SunBelt. I think that the current plan is to have at least one other western or even mountain time zone team with football join so that Lamar can be added as well. However, if there is even one defection from the current five teams of SJSU, Idaho, LaTech, USU or NMSU, Lamar will be invited with no strings attached and immediately. It's just a matter of time whether Lamar will be invited next year or the year after that (max). Making Lamar wait is pretty much the same thing that the WAC did to Seattle the year before although Lamar hasn't made an official presentation to join the WAC yet. The WAC can only add so many "major market" teams w/o football. They need football schools to join.

[Guest CardAmbassador]

I wish I was as confident as you ucd, I don't believe we are a lock for the WAC unless the USU rumor is true. The WAC needs two more schools to complete it's set up. Those schools can be found outside of Lamar in my opinion. I feel like the UTA add was a signal that the next additions would be outside Texas, I could be wrong. The WAC made Seattle wait because they were actively pursuing other schools, so if Lamar is being made to wait then there is that possibility two schools will bite before the WAC's deadline.

 

After all of these USU rumors I do feel like LU will eventually get a shot though. It's easier to see how important we can come if things start moving. Someone might snatch us up to provide cushion against losses to larger conferences.

[Guest farmfanucdgrad]

The Wac will not stop at just a 9/12 football/all school set up because it's just a raid away from being destablized. That's the immediate goal (9/12 with two 6 team divisions) but I definitely see a 12/16 or even a 14/16 set up eventually (assuming UTA adds football in the future). Lamar fits the footprint of the south division and plays football so again I think they will be included once Lamar commits to stadium expansion. Portland State and Sacramento State in the west or the 2 Montana schools are the only teams that are possible in the immediate future (3 years out). Other Football schools such as UC Davis and Cal Poly are possible in say 5-8 years, if ever. There is a possibility that none of these schools are ready either within 3 years so the WAC will potentially add Cal State Bakersfield (no football) for the west and then add Lamar in the south/east. That would be an 8/12 setup that according to the WAC is worst case scenario but doable in the immediate future. I honestly do not see any FBS school like UNT or even ULL considering joining until there is split division play for a few years for all non football sports. Lamar fits the profile of helping the WAC in the short term whether the WAC likes it or not. That's why I see how obvious the choice of Lamar joining has become.