Is this the end of the road for Woodard?

[cardinal]

Why are we happy with 8 wins after 5 years playing and 7 years on the job? We should be winning the SLC and advancing in the playoffs. With the cupcake schedule Woodard had and the favorable SLC schedule this year, this team should win 7 to 8 with no problem. But I don't think winning is everything. How many season ticket holders feel they are getting the bang for their bucks with Tx College and Miss College on the schedule? Attendence is dwelling and all the excitiment is gone from the program. This program needs a shot in the arm and only a change in the coaching will do it. Woodard is getting to comfortable and not wanting to move forward.

 

Because, historically, the Southland Conference has been an excellent FCS football conference. There have been some excellent teams (including the nauseating Bearkats) in our conference. I think 8 wins (against good teams) would be a great accomplishment for us right now.

[cardinal]

Laughable.....I just looked up the all-time records for Lamar Football. Again....Who do you guys think you are? And I looked up the salaries for the football coaching staff.....Who are you going to get for those prices? thanks for the Laugh fella!!!

 

How do our salaries compare to other SLC schools? I've always thought we needed to 'pay to play' but I haven't done any comparisons. But, if we want better coaching we are likely going to have to step up with some money...which sounds fine to me.

[CraigS]

What professional sport has succeeded in Huntsville? Lake Charles? Nacogdoches? Houma? Thibodeaux? Natchitoches? Conway Arkansas? It is such a stupid argument. We only have 110,000 people. It's just not large enough to support a professional sport. But it is a MUCH better place to live than the cities above. And we should easily be able to recruit against any of them.

 

For starters the GT is much larger than any of those areas you mentioned as far as metro area. I'm glad you asked this so by comparison -

 

City - metro area population

Beaumont - 385,090

Huntsville - 38,548

Lake Charles - 202,040

Nacogdoches - 64,524

Lafayette - 273,738

Thibodaux - 194,477

Natchitoches -39,138

Conway - 60,470

 

 

Mobile - 415,704 which is the closet I could find (within 30K) What does Mobile have to offer that Lamar / Beaumont does not?

 

AA Baseball Mobile Baybears

University of South Alabama - FBS -Sun Belt

GMAC bowl game

Senior Bowl

Spring Hill College

University of Mobile

[LUSportsFan]

How do our salaries compare to other SLC schools? I've always thought we needed to 'pay to play' but I haven't done any comparisons. But, if we want better coaching we are likely going to have to step up with some money...which sounds fine to me.

 

Interesting Question.

 

I don't have the breakdown, but here's the overall Coaching / Staff expense per the most recent USAToday College Finances database. (Data for the non-public universities is not in the database.)

 

 

[TABLE=width: 500, align: left]

[TR]

[TD]With Football[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]University

[/TD]

[TD]Coaching / Staff

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Stephen F. Austin[/TD]

[TD]$4,822,083[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Sam Houston State[/TD]

[TD]$4,623,908[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Lamar[/TD]

[TD]$4,184,456[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Southeastern Louisiana[/TD]

[TD]$3,615,987[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Central Arkansas[/TD]

[TD]$3,166,002[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Northwestern State[/TD]

[TD]$3,061,582[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]McNeese State[/TD]

[TD]$2,569,859[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Nicholls State[/TD]

[TD]$2,226,909[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[TABLE=width: 500, align: left]

[TR]

[TD]Without Football[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]University

[/TD]

[TD]Coaching / Staff

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]TAMU-Corpus Christi[/TD]

[TD]$3,172,065[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]New Orleans[/TD]

[TD]$1,664,510[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

[NorthoftheBorder]

For starters the GT is much larger than any of those areas you mentioned as far as metro area. I'm glad you asked this so by comparison -

 

City - metro area population

Beaumont - 385,090

Huntsville - 38,548

Lake Charles - 202,040

Nacogdoches - 64,524

Lafayette - 273,738

Thibodaux - 194,477

Natchitoches -39,138

Conway - 60,470

 

 

Mobile - 415,704 which is the closet I could find (within 30K) What does Mobile have to offer that Lamar / Beaumont does not?

 

AA Baseball Mobile Baybears

University of South Alabama - FBS -Sun Belt

GMAC bowl game

Senior Bowl

Spring Hill College

University of Mobile

 

Craig your anti Golden Triangle/Beaumont bias bleeds through pretty badly!! From reading your posts I gather that you live here, or at least lived here until recent times but all you want to do is repeatedly and consistently brow beat the area and its residents. I for one am not at all supportive of some of the things that have gone on by our leadership and I have complained loudly myself at various times in my life. I believe that with good leadership at LU things can turn around in spite of the shortcomings that we have.

[Pirate88]

Because, historically, the Southland Conference has been an excellent FCS football conference. There have been some excellent teams (including the nauseating Bearkats) in our conference. I think 8 wins (against good teams) would be a great accomplishment for us right now.

I don't see 8 wins for the Cards this year. Call me crazy, but after 5 years playing, I think Lamar should be a little farther along than hoping for 8 wins and a good showing in the SLC.

 

8 wins would be an accomplishment by Woodard's standards. I think the majority is finally awaken to the fact Woodard's standards aren't theirs.

[CraigS]

Craig your anti Golden Triangle/Beaumont bias bleeds through pretty badly!! From reading your posts I gather that you live here, or at least lived here until recent times but all you want to do is repeatedly and consistently brow beat the area and its residents. I for one am not at all supportive of some of the things that have gone on by our leadership and I have complained loudly myself at various times in my life. I believe that with good leadership at LU things can turn around in spite of the shortcomings that we have.

 

 

Yes, as do I. But when you've been part of a program that has all but handed this said leadership a golden opportunity to do just that, it's just frustrating....I've also said...I'd love to support LU on several levels...Football - Baseball - Softball...but with the current direction of 2 out 3 ....Gilligan finally stopped recruiting JUST new yorkers in his second stint...anyway...on the subject...

 

people are quick to blast other SLC cities as not doing it either....I was just showing that the Lamar (Beaumont) metro area is way way bigger and should NOT be compared to those towns, whereas Mobile is more comparable and should serve more as the role model in which our area should work towards becoming. There really isn't a reason (based on population) why we can't have an FBS program, which in turn would bring bigger better opponents....etc etc

[puddin tane]

For starters the GT is much larger than any of those areas you mentioned as far as metro area. I'm glad you asked this so by comparison -

 

City - metro area population

Beaumont - 385,090

Huntsville - 38,548

Lake Charles - 202,040

Nacogdoches - 64,524

Lafayette - 273,738

Thibodaux - 194,477

Natchitoches -39,138

Conway - 60,470

 

 

Mobile - 415,704 which is the closet I could find (within 30K) What does Mobile have to offer that Lamar / Beaumont does not?

 

AA Baseball Mobile Baybears

University of South Alabama - FBS -Sun Belt

GMAC bowl game

Senior Bowl

Spring Hill College

University of Mobile

 

Hmm does Orange fall in with Beaumont or Lake Charles ? The woodlands and Conroe with Huntsville? Little Rock with Conway?

[CraigS]

Hmm does Orange fall in with Beaumont or Lake Charles ? The woodlands and Conroe with Huntsville? Little Rock with Conway?

 

Im not sure what the census bureau considers the metropolitan area of each city.

[puddin tane]

Then why type it and use it?

[CraigS]

Then why type it and use it?

 

because I was using the same source to provide comparisons, you'd think similar or exact criteria was used by the census bureau to establish this data, or what would be the point of THEM typing and using it....so in doing so it shows a reflection between cities of similar sizes and that comparing a Huntsville with 38,548 with a Beaumont of 385, 090 are not going to have the same base for supporting certain activities...whereas a similar population in Mobile can and does support such activities.

[LUSportsFan]

Im not sure what the census bureau considers the metropolitan area of each city.

 

According to the Census Bureau, Orange is within the four county Beaumont-Port Arthur MSA. The MSA includes Hardin, Jefferson, Newton, and Orange counties. (Newton county was the most recent addition.) I'd probably add Jasper county. I think a case for at least part of Chambers county and at least part of Liberty county could be made, but those two have already been made part of the Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land MSA so Beaumont-Port Arthur gets no credit for them.

 

One could probably make a valid argument that the Beaumont-Port Arthur, Lake Charles MSA with two bordering parishes to the east, and the Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land MSA with two bordering counties to the west blur the boundaries.

 

Going farther into the "rabbit hole"...

 

One thing that is interesting to me is the number of counties.

 

Atlanta, GA MSA - 29 counties

Dallas-Ft Worth - 13 counties

Houston - 9 counties

 

One might be able to argue that the San Antonio and Austin MSA's should be combined also.

Edited October 2, 2014 by LUSportsFan

[puddin tane]

This is what I'm saying with the numbers crap. Beaumont to Orange=Huntsville to Conroe= Conway to Little Rock...and now we are throwing in Newton? That's Huntsville to Houston. So, Huntsville has 6 million people in the area? Conway over a million?

[CraigS]

Whatever, other than being argumentative to only defend the lackluster efforts by our area, one can clearly see the point being made. Beaumont clearly has an operating area of more than just the population of Bmt which is what started t his line of discussion...the Golden Triangle Area...I hardly doubt people draw TO Huntsville FROM Conroe or TO Conway FROM Little Rock...etc... whereas the surrounding area is drawn TO BEAUMONT as it is TO Mobile......anyway......Keep denying the obvious, nothing will change for the GT / Bmt / LU as far as the football program reaching what some have suggested or asked for which is FBS status......and as the title suggest referring to Woodards job......I'm not sure ANYONE else could do a whole lot better with what they have to work with.........and like I said, I wish it would either under Woodard or whoever...I's like to see LU succeed as well......

[saltine]

why not compare lamar to utsa? they started their program after lamar did, and the progress made is head over heels beyond what woodard has done for lamar. he is a copycat coach at best, and that's giving more credit then he deserves. i'm sorry, but i looked on his facebook page yesterday, and instead of staying off of social media, he's asking questions about 70's songs??? does anybody see the issues within??? instead of asking questions about music, he might want to try asking how to find talent, or how to teach his punter how to kick a football in bounds. the guy is a joke and needs to go.

[geezer]

A big difference when comparing Beaumont to Mobile is the distance to the next large urban area. For Beaumont, Houston is close enough that many people will just travel that distance for entertainment or complain. For Mobiles the closest city with similar national appeal is New Orleans. I would think that Huntsville has similar problems when it comes to entertainment that Beaumont does, but the fact that so many concerts etc happen in the Woodlands makes it a lot closer than traveling from Beaumont for college kids. I think the biggest deterrent to college life in Beaumont is its proximity to Houston, its not far enough away and it is not close enough. Maybe if one of the failures that was spoken of much earlier had stayed a few years longer and shown some consistent on field or court success they would have succeeded. By the way what does any of this really have to do with Woodard staying or being released? I believe he will be judged by the won/loss record, the academic success of the program and how much patience the big money donors have. Immediate success after a coaching change does happen but most times it does not and even if it does. it doesn't necessarily predict the future success as seen by the last three years of LU Basketball .

[Pirate88]

I think a better question to ask is "What are your expectations for Lamar football?" Do you want to see Lamar still in the SLC in 10 years, with a winning season every so often or would you like to see Lamar build up to the FBS level? If you are wanting the SLC, then keep Woodard around another 1-2 years. If you want FBS, and by FBS I'm saying mid-major level, then Woodard is past due to be gone.

 

I've wanted FBS from the beginning. I also said not to jump right into either. I said back in 2009, at least 5 years in SLC to get competitive. Well that 5 years is almost up and we aren't competitive yet in the SLC. That's all Woodard.

 

Bottom line, Woodard hasn't done much to get us ready or near ready to FBS.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Pirate88

[saltine]

everyone keeps saying 5 years when actually he's had 7 years. 2 came before they actually started playing football. he had 2 to recruit, which he didn't do much of, and 5 of actual football.

[puddin tane]

I think a better question to ask is "What are your expectations for Lamar football?" Do you want to see Lamar still in the SLC in 10 years, with a winning season every so often or would you like to see Lamar build up to the FCS level? If you are wanting the SLC, then keep Woodard around another 1-2 years. If you want FCS, and by FCS I'm saying mid-major level, then Woodard is past due to be gone.

 

I've wanted FCS from the beginning. I also said not to jump right into either. I said back in 2009, at least 5 years in SLC to get competitive. Well that 5 years is almost up and we aren't competitive yet in the SLC. That's all Woodard.

 

Bottom line, Woodard hasn't done much to get us ready or near ready to FCS.

 

Hell, you oughta be happy. We've been FCS for 5 years.

[Pirate88]

everyone keeps saying 5 years when actually he's had 7 years. 2 came before they actually started playing football. he had 2 to recruit, which he didn't do much of, and 5 of actual football.

I know he's been here 7 years. I was stating after 5 years playing we should at least be competitive in the SLC.

[KABrother88]

I think a better question to ask is "What are your expectations for Lamar football?" Do you want to see Lamar still in the SLC in 10 years, with a winning season every so often or would you like to see Lamar build up to the FCS level? If you are wanting the SLC, then keep Woodard around another 1-2 years. If you want FCS, and by FCS I'm saying mid-major level, then Woodard is past due to be gone.

 

I've wanted FCS from the beginning. I also said not to jump right into either. I said back in 2009, at least 5 years in SLC to get competitive. Well that 5 years is almost up and we aren't competitive yet in the SLC. That's all Woodard.

 

Bottom line, Woodard hasn't done much to get us ready or near ready to FCS.

 

The fact you don't know the difference between FBS and FCS (which we have been the whole time) makes your entire post invalid...sesh

[Pirate88]

The fact you don't know the difference between FBS and FCS (which we have been the whole time) makes your entire post invalid...sesh

 

I know the difference. We all can't be perfect like you and Puddin.

[CraigS]

What does this have to do with Woodard? Everything I've said and I've explained that. .. nothing has been successful in Bmt. For any period of time. .. yet areas of similar size has. ..I posted about the other areas because the "area" is much smaller by population and can not be compared. ... so. . It's NOT WOODARDS FAULT. ... because of all the failures previously I don't think anyone can have the success some of you seek. ... try as you may. However if also expressed my wishes that they somehow could. ... history however shows otherwise. ...

[KABrother88]

I know the difference. We all can't be perfect like you and Puddin.

 

The fact you called it FCS 5 times leads me to believe you didn't...once MAYBE twice I'd count it as a typo or brain fart...but not 5 times...

[puddin tane]

Wah wah woh wah wah